PSC Meeting 9 April 2015

Proposed meeting time:

Thu 9th April, 1530 CEST

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next meeting

IRC: #qgis_meeting_150409

Members Present:

  • Paolo Cavallini



(3:20:47 PM) pcav: ok, one is done :)
(3:21:16 PM) pcav: I do not want to monopolize the discussion
(3:21:24 PM) pcav: dassau, mhugent ?
(3:21:53 PM) anitagraser: hi, sorry for being late.
(3:22:08 PM) pcav: hi anita
(3:22:09 PM) mhugent: dassau: Putting GUI and doc translators together somewhere. People want to appear on a credit list... is from you
(3:22:28 PM) dassau: yes, it was an inquiry from the list
(3:22:43 PM) dassau: I talked with Werner and he said I should ask on PSC
(3:23:00 PM) dassau: At the moment GUI translators appear in QGIS help menue
(3:23:06 PM) dassau: but documenters don't
(3:23:11 PM) pcav: I agree, giving credits is always good
(3:23:24 PM) dassau: but everybody wants to be aknowledged
(3:23:28 PM) anitagraser: sure let's add documenters as well to the help menu
(3:23:34 PM) pcav: so you suggest of putting all together, right?
(3:23:55 PM) dassau: I don't know if this is possible or too many people?
(3:24:03 PM) dassau: if no problem, then yes
(3:24:20 PM) dassau: this list would be quite long
(3:24:24 PM) pcav: one option is to do like for donors
(3:24:33 PM) pcav: add a link and point to a web page
(3:24:35 PM) mhugent: are there more documenters than translators?
(3:24:39 PM) pcav: simple and flexible
(3:24:51 PM) dassau: I would have to count mhugent
(3:25:46 PM) timlinux [[email protected]] entered the room.
(3:25:51 PM) ***timlinux is back
(3:26:13 PM) anitagraser: dassau: should we just agree to give it a try?
(3:26:37 PM) dassau: yes, let's do it that way
(3:26:39 PM) timlinux: anitagraser: can you paste the logs so I can read what I missed?
(3:26:59 PM) dassau: I can have a look and see if it makes sense or not
(3:27:00 PM) pcav: +1 for me, as said
(3:27:00 PM) jef [[email protected]/developer/jef] entered the room.
(3:27:29 PM) mhugent: hi jef
(3:27:33 PM) jef: hi
(3:27:36 PM) timlinux: hi jef
(3:27:57 PM) timlinux: pcav thought you had dissapeared off the earth :-)
(3:28:15 PM) pcav: hi jef !
(3:28:35 PM) anitagraser: timlinux: sorry, just joined myself. maybe dassau can past the logs
(3:28:52 PM) timlinux: np
(3:29:14 PM) ***jef too
(3:30:52 PM) dassau: ok, sent per Email if that's ok
(3:32:02 PM) anitagraser: thanks! which point is next?
(3:32:33 PM) pcav: anita: we're going on a sparse order
(3:32:43 PM) pcav: feel free to suggest the next
(3:33:06 PM) pcav: if jef agrees, we could go back to bugfix release
(3:33:43 PM) timlinux: jef: can we put out a 2.8.2 release?
(3:34:15 PM) aneumann [[email protected]] entered the room.
(3:34:17 PM) jef: timlinux: sure.
(3:34:37 PM) timlinux: great
(3:34:49 PM) timlinux: ignore my stupid email then :-)
(3:34:57 PM) pcav: so that's finished?
(3:35:08 PM) pcav: that was quick :)
(3:35:14 PM) timlinux: yes lets move on
(3:35:19 PM) pcav: fine
(3:35:30 PM) pcav: jef: any idea about the time frame?
(3:36:24 PM) jef: pcav: not really. the two week window doesn't work.   and I don't have the automatic linux release builds setup yet.
(3:37:05 PM) pcav: ok
(3:37:09 PM) pcav: thanks
(3:37:24 PM) pcav: so, what's next?
(3:37:26 PM) jef: and the time is better spend on setting that up, doing a manual release again - probably the same effort.
(3:37:33 PM) timlinux: btw I added an item to the agenda
(3:37:35 PM) pcav: sure
(3:37:40 PM) jef: instead of doing, that is.
(3:38:09 PM) pcav: timlinux: do you want to go ahead with your point?
(3:38:23 PM) timlinux: Ok sure
(3:38:47 PM) timlinux: so the issue I want to raise is the idea of rotations in the PSC
(3:39:11 PM) timlinux: one model is e.g. every 2 years to ask 2 members places to be held for election
(3:39:24 PM) timlinux: the idea being to allow fresh blood into the PSC
(3:39:36 PM) timlinux: while still keeping some continuity
(3:40:05 PM) timlinux: and to be more democratic about PSC membership
(3:40:28 PM) timlinux: we were voted in but if people get bored of us, there isnt really any mechanism for our replacement
(3:40:44 PM) timlinux: I looked at models by e.g. OSM
(3:40:46 PM) pcav: ok
(3:40:55 PM) anitagraser: agreed
(3:40:59 PM) pcav: the point is: who votes who?
(3:41:23 PM) dassau: I also like the idea of rotation
(3:41:26 PM) timlinux: well each cycle two oldest places would get put up for vote
(3:41:30 PM) timlinux: based on rotation
(3:42:02 PM) timlinux: the incumbent can choose to be automatically in the vote
(3:42:06 PM) jef: do we rotate before 2.8.2? ;)
(3:42:07 PM) anitagraser: pcav: what were the voting rules so far?
(3:42:11 PM) timlinux: haha
(3:42:44 PM) pcav: :)
(3:43:08 PM) timlinux:
(3:43:20 PM) timlinux: there are lots of different models for doing it
(3:43:21 PM) pcav: timlinux: I would ask to postpone this to the HF
(3:43:31 PM) pcav: better taking some time to talk about this
(3:43:40 PM) timlinux: ok - let met write up a proposal 
(3:43:44 PM) pcav: I think we all generally agree
(3:43:46 PM) timlinux: and we can discuss it there
(3:43:55 PM) pcav: we just have to define the terms
(3:44:00 PM) timlinux: yup
(3:45:30 PM) jef: well, seriously - would rotation make sense when the psc members have an assigned function?
(3:46:01 PM) pcav: jef: that's one of the reasons I'd like to talk in person
(3:46:06 PM) pcav: with more time
(3:47:06 PM) timlinux: jef I think probably yes - I think think it is that unique a situation
(3:47:27 PM) timlinux: but anyway yes we can discuss it more at the HF
(3:47:43 PM) timlinux: I meant to say I *dont't think* above
(3:49:49 PM) pcav: what next?
(3:50:04 PM) pcav: I'm sorting items according to discussion
(3:50:14 PM) pcav: on I mean
(3:50:24 PM) anitagraser: if you don't mind: can we set the psc meet at the hackfest for 20th?
(3:50:28 PM) pcav: mhugent: q3?
(3:50:36 PM) mhugent: Ok 
(3:50:37 PM) anitagraser: since i won't be staying the whole week
(3:50:52 PM) mhugent: QGIS 3 has been discussed several times here and also on the mailing list
(3:51:17 PM) mhugent: The idea is to move to Qt5/python3 and allow api breaks (e.g. for composer redesign)
(3:51:27 PM) pcav: yes
(3:51:39 PM) mhugent: So the question is how and when go for version 3
(3:51:58 PM) mhugent: E.g. QGIS3 after 2.10?
(3:52:16 PM) pcav: IMHO, since we have a LTR
(3:52:20 PM) pcav: we can go anytime
(3:52:25 PM) pcav: preferably soon
(3:52:38 PM) pcav: so people will have more safe time with the LTR
(3:52:42 PM) aneumann: Would 3.1 be another LTR then?
(3:52:52 PM) timlinux: yeah I also dont see much point in waiting till after a 2.10
(3:53:12 PM) anitagraser: any time that works for you
(3:53:16 PM) timlinux: aneumann: yes
(3:53:24 PM) timlinux: 3.2
(3:53:26 PM) pcav: conservative peple can stay on 2.8 for 1 yr
(3:53:45 PM) pcav: and move to 3.2 after that
(3:53:48 PM) aneumann: it would be good to have something stable in Feb 2016
(3:54:15 PM) pcav: right, that's why I'm suggesting to move soon
(3:54:23 PM) pcav: to 3
(3:54:42 PM) mhugent: For me it is also the sooner the better.
(3:55:12 PM) mhugent: jef, what is your opinion (since you are the release manager)?
(3:55:26 PM) aneumann: the question is if the ideas for the new API are already ready/good enought to start with QGIS3?
(3:56:15 PM) aneumann: or maybe there are things to discuss before?
(3:56:47 PM) timlinux_ [[email protected]] entered the room.
(3:56:57 PM) timlinux_: sorry folks I have to board my flight
(3:57:24 PM) jef: mhugent: I don't have strong opinions about version numbers and api stability.   the api should never be turned inside out and constantly changes anyway.
(3:57:38 PM) timlinux left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
(3:57:38 PM) timlinux_: +1 from me to make the next release a jump to 3.0 but we need to hear from nyall
(3:57:52 PM) aneumann: Nyall told me that he can implement things in parallel for the print composer - similar to symbology 1/2 or labeling 1/2
(3:57:53 PM) timlinux_: because he may have specific timelines
(3:57:53 PM) pcav: +1
(3:57:59 PM) timlinux_: ok
(3:58:01 PM) anitagraser: +1
(3:58:09 PM) timlinux_: ok folks I will catch up in the logs
(3:58:16 PM) timlinux_ left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(3:58:28 PM) dassau: +1
(3:58:30 PM) aneumann: but that was because he did not get any feedback on when QGIS3 will be started
(3:58:45 PM) aneumann: Maybe he would prefer otherwise
(3:59:03 PM) anitagraser: should we decide on hf dinner next, since that should be decided soon?
(3:59:40 PM) jef: pcav: how much were the dinners we had before?
(3:59:50 PM) pcav: very variable
(4:00:05 PM) jef: why is this one different?
(4:00:08 PM) pcav: dassau knows better
(4:00:26 PM) pcav: the highest I remember was 1k
(4:00:41 PM) dassau: yes, it is usually below 1k
(4:01:06 PM) aneumann: pcav: there was the idea that the user conference would generate some income - any news on that?
(4:01:09 PM) anitagraser: our budget for this hf in total is 10k according to the google sheet
(4:01:25 PM) dassau: the bill for Essen was sent directly to Horst, I think it was about 500 - 600 EUR
(4:01:31 PM) pcav: the income is used to cover expenses AFAIK
(4:02:14 PM) aneumann: Yes - 10k is the amount we have in the budget - how many applications for travel support did we get, PCAV?
(4:02:39 PM) pcav: very few
(4:02:46 PM) pcav: 4 I believe
(4:02:49 PM) pcav: must check
(4:02:50 PM) mhugent: there might still be a few to come
(4:02:54 PM) pcav: the usual stuff
(4:02:56 PM) pcav: ;)
(4:03:07 PM) pcav: people ask at the last minute
(4:03:13 PM) anitagraser: as mentioned on the mailing list, I'd opt for catering ... cannot imagine that's €50 per head
(4:04:00 PM) aneumann: Other question: who will pay for accommodation during the week in nodebo?
(4:04:16 PM) pcav: the other option is to cover only for core devs
(4:04:24 PM) pcav: but that raises other problems too
(4:04:35 PM) pcav: the university will pay for accommodation
(4:04:35 PM) aneumann: will this be sponsored by the host or would individual participants pay for their accommodation?
(4:04:38 PM) aneumann: good
(4:04:43 PM) pcav: and transportation
(4:05:03 PM) aneumann: so then I would think we can cover the dinner - but should make sure it won't be too expensive
(4:05:06 PM) pcav: from and to the airport
(4:05:26 PM) pcav: about 2k
(4:06:07 PM) anitagraser: ok
(4:06:26 PM) aneumann: should be fine - we would still be below the 10k then - even with Nyall and potentially Nathan
(4:07:15 PM) aneumann: btw: here is the current financial situation:
(4:07:45 PM) gsherman [[email protected]] entered the room.
(4:07:53 PM) aneumann: if you scroll down on the first sheet you can see the balance in the account
(4:08:02 PM) pcav: nathan is not coming
(4:08:22 PM) pcav: I do not know about flights
(4:08:27 PM) aneumann: there will be around 15k coming soon from QGISCH and Vorarlberg
(4:08:37 PM) pcav: for now they seem to be more expensive than for other HF
(4:09:05 PM) pcav: I agree we can afford it
(4:09:09 PM) pcav: the question is:
(4:09:27 PM) pcav: * do you prefer to invest it in dinner or, say, bugfixing?
(4:10:04 PM) pcav: * do we like to say our donors that we spent their donation in a dinner?
(4:10:14 PM) pcav: I'm not saying "no" 
(4:10:23 PM) pcav: in fact, its' a +0 for me
(4:10:33 PM) jef: pcav: but you're just trying hard to avoid it. ;)
(4:10:34 PM) aneumann: We can cap it to 2k - personally I don't mind paying my own dinner
(4:10:45 PM) pcav: jef
(4:10:59 PM) pcav: no, I just do not want to take the responsibility for this
(4:11:15 PM) pcav: if it's a shared position, then it's perfectly fine for me
(4:11:36 PM) aneumann: The situation is that most devs don't ask for travel support - so it would be nice to have something social
(4:11:39 PM) anitagraser: i think it's reasonable to feed the people at the HF. if there's a cap, i don't see an issue
(4:12:28 PM) dassau: I agree with Andreas, dinner was always part of the dev meetings and should be fine for donors if we cap it
(4:12:41 PM) pcav: ok, so let's say: we accept, cap @ 2k€
(4:12:56 PM) pcav: ok?
(4:12:58 PM) anitagraser: +1
(4:13:01 PM) jef: I just wondering why this one is different.  we had dinners before 
(4:13:06 PM) dassau: +1
(4:13:14 PM) pcav: jef: just much more expensive
(4:13:26 PM) mhugent: +1
(4:13:31 PM) pcav: ok, done
(4:13:32 PM) pcav: thanks
(4:13:53 PM) pcav: next?
(4:13:56 PM) aneumann: I'll have to leave, sorry (arriving late and leaving early)
(4:14:06 PM) pcav: bye andreas
(4:14:12 PM) aneumann: bye
(4:14:15 PM) anitagraser: bye
(4:14:17 PM) dassau: bye andreas
(4:14:24 PM) jef: aneumann: tschuess
(4:14:26 PM) aneumann left the room (quit: Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium
(4:14:49 PM) pcav: may I go?
(4:15:18 PM) anitagraser: i think so
(4:15:54 PM) pcav: so, quickly:
(4:15:59 PM) pcav: funding profile
(4:16:12 PM) pcav: I think time is ripe now to adopt tim suggestion
(4:16:20 PM) pcav:
(4:16:52 PM) pcav: should we talk about it at the HF, hopefully releasing it then?
(4:17:13 PM) anitagraser: ok
(4:17:47 PM) anitagraser: are there any open questions, that should be prepared beforehand?
(4:18:17 PM) pcav: not that I know of
(4:18:25 PM) pcav: but better ask Tim
(4:18:40 PM) anitagraser: should/will this be acompanied by a copy of the last years' budgets?
(4:19:14 PM) anitagraser: oh just noticed the link
(4:19:18 PM) anitagraser: disregard my comment
(4:19:49 PM) pcav: ok, so
(4:19:55 PM) pcav: postopned to HF?
(4:19:59 PM) pcav: postponed
(4:21:24 PM) pcav: nobody seems to be willing discussing it here ;)
(4:21:42 PM) pcav: so, a couple of quinck things:
(4:22:31 PM) anitagraser: i just added a comment on whether we have budgeted website content maintenance 
(4:22:38 PM) pcav: proposed bronze sponsorship
(4:22:56 PM) pcav: I may be blind, but I do not see the risk here
(4:23:12 PM) pcav: we still miss several votes
(4:24:37 PM) anitagraser: mhugent: ? jef ?
(4:25:18 PM) anitagraser: gsherman seemed a bit concerned ...
(4:25:47 PM) pcav: in the very worst case
(4:25:56 PM) pcav: we can always send the money back
(4:26:14 PM) pcav: but I frankly do not see it likely
(4:26:30 PM) pcav: anyway, we can vote now and close the issue
(4:27:26 PM) mhugent: +0
(4:27:45 PM) jef: hm, they do marketing? SEO?   are our links to cheap?
(4:28:40 PM) pcav: or high value :)
(4:28:55 PM) anitagraser: maybe we should have a discussion about sponsorship prices at some point as well
(4:29:10 PM) pcav: anita: agreed
(4:29:35 PM) jef: pcav: that's what I meant.   they want links from us.   perhaps they will tell all their customers to sponsor us too as an cheap way to get a better page rank.
(4:29:49 PM) anitagraser: +1 in this case, i don't see the threat
(4:29:52 PM) pcav: it may be
(4:30:06 PM) pcav: in this case we have to raise the min amount
(4:30:14 PM) pcav: or put a link only for silver
(4:30:26 PM) pcav: just the name for bronze
(4:31:45 PM) anitagraser: pcav: good idea, we should keep that in mind
(4:32:58 PM) pcav: marked on the wiki
(4:33:19 PM) pcav: so it's:
(4:33:26 PM) pcav: anita and me +1
(4:33:36 PM) pcav: mhugent +0
(4:33:56 PM) pcav: gsherman, dassau -1
(4:33:59 PM) pcav: right?
(4:34:08 PM) jef: +0
(4:34:22 PM) pcav: perfect tie then ;)
(4:34:25 PM) dassau: yes, -1 for me
(4:34:47 PM) pcav: I couldn't imagine it was so difficult :)
(4:34:58 PM) dassau: we have to wait for tim
(4:34:59 PM) gsherman: having companies that do web marketing for clients makes me suscpicious
(4:35:07 PM) pcav: ok, I'll ask Richard and Tim then
(4:35:14 PM) anitagraser: ok
(4:35:30 PM) pcav: gsherman: I agree with the suspicion
(4:35:39 PM) pcav: I just do not see our risk
(4:35:57 PM) pcav: ok, I'll see with time and richard
(4:36:09 PM) pcav: my last small point:
(4:36:10 PM) gsherman: how often are the links checked, to make sure they aren't redirecting to some junk link farm (which i hate)
(4:36:16 PM) pcav: QUGs
(4:36:34 PM) pcav: I like the idea of providing a template for user groups
(4:36:46 PM) pcav: not compulsory, of course, but a suggested one
(4:36:54 PM) pcav:
(4:37:15 PM) pcav: derived from the .us group
(4:37:28 PM) pcav: any objection or suggestion?
(4:37:33 PM) anitagraser: sounds good to me, thanks for that pcav! 
(4:37:44 PM) anitagraser: link doesn't work for me though
(4:37:57 PM) pcav: if we agree, I think we should announce it
(4:38:04 PM) jef: pcav: you mean
(4:38:13 PM) pcav: so outher local communities will feel encouraged to follow
(4:38:25 PM) pcav: yes, sorry, wrong link
(4:38:29 PM) pcav: thanks jef 
(4:39:52 PM) anitagraser: do we have a central list of qugs yet?
(4:39:58 PM) pcav: nope
(4:40:07 PM) pcav: I tried to set up one:
(4:40:13 PM) anitagraser: so just the list of upcoming events?
(4:40:15 PM) pcav:
(4:40:27 PM) pcav: but most probably it's incomplete
(4:41:18 PM) anitagraser: i guess we can just repleatedly invite all these groups to get involved in the general qgis community
(4:41:59 PM) pcav: yes
(4:42:24 PM) anitagraser: i can spread the word on twitter once the mail is out
(4:42:27 PM) pcav: I believe that having a template and announcing it widely will encourage more QUGs to pop up
(4:43:35 PM) anitagraser: will you write the announcement?
(4:44:11 PM) pcav: better if the community manager does it? ;9
(4:44:13 PM) pcav: ;)
(4:45:25 PM) pcav: or you can blog about it?
(4:46:00 PM) anitagraser: sure i can blog, but there should be something on the list as well imho
(4:46:23 PM) pcav: I wrote on qgis-community about it
(4:47:20 PM) anitagraser: should be on qgis-user as well i think
(4:47:44 PM) anitagraser: not sure if we reach everyone interested on the community mailing list
(4:48:08 PM) dassau: I can write to all list
(4:48:38 PM) anitagraser: great thanks
(4:49:01 PM) pcav: ok, fine
(4:49:15 PM) pcav: no more issues for me
(4:49:35 PM) pcav: anything more?
(4:49:41 PM) pcav: or should be close?
(4:51:08 PM) anitagraser: well, i think it's silent 
(4:52:38 PM) mhugent left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(4:53:41 PM) anitagraser: thanks everyone
(4:54:43 PM) pcav: ok, thanks