PSC Meeting 6 Jun 2014

Proposed meeting time:

Friday, June 06, 1500 UTC

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Members Present:

  • Anita Graser
  • Paolo Cavallini
  • Marco Hugentobler
  • Jürgen Fischer
  • Tim Sutton
  • Richard Duivenvoorde


  • 2.4 release: current state
  • QGIS Server reference server?
  • Donation appeal on download page
  • Merchandising (stickers etc)
  • Adding SVGs


--- Log opened Sun Jun 08 11:30:34 2014
16:07 [Users #qgis_meeting_140606]
16:07 [@timlinux] [ duiv] [ jef] 
16:09 < pcav1> Hi all
16:09 < pcav1> waiting for Anita and Marco, right?
16:10 <@timlinux> hi pcav1 hi duiv 
16:10 < duiv> yep, and also 1500 UTC is not withing 48 minutes...
16:10 < duiv> hi timlinux 
16:20 <@timlinux> duiv: another 40 minutes you say?
16:20 <@timlinux> my gnome clocks app has me confused
16:20 <@timlinux> ok Ill take a quick swim in the pool then!
16:20 <@timlinux> back in a bit
16:20 <@timlinux> duiv: I updated my page
16:21 <@timlinux> poiting it to the docs page
16:22 <@timlinux> hi anitagraser 
16:22 < anitagraser> hi timlinux
16:22 < duiv> cool thanks. It's just that this person on irc was talking about it...
16:23 < duiv> did you ever sell one of the hardcopies on amazon?  I see they have '8 used' copies ...
16:29 [Users #qgis_meeting_140606]
16:29 [@timlinux] [ anitagraser] [ duiv] [ jef] [ mhugent] [ pcav1] 
16:30 <@timlinux> anitagraser: do you still have the interview with mhugent from the hf?
16:31 <@timlinux> I wanted to publish it but I cant find it here on my hd
16:31 < anitagraser> timlinux: probably, would have to look for it on my other machine
16:31 <@timlinux> would you mind putting it somewhere that I can grab it from if you have a minute
16:31 <@timlinux> Ill put out macho's interview in the meantime
16:34 < anitagraser> timlinux: sure, might take a while though
16:34 <@timlinux> ok no rush
17:01 < jef> 15:00 UTC
17:02 < duiv> ok, I'm in
17:02 < mhugent> hi all
17:03 < mhugent> I need to leave at 15:45
17:03 < duiv> somebody volunteering for chair?
17:04 < duiv> timlinux: pcav1 anitagraser available?
17:05  * anitagraser nods
17:05 < pcav1> yes
17:06 < pcav1> if *really* nobody else wants
17:06 < pcav1> anitagraser disappeared?
17:06 <@timlinux> here
17:07 <@timlinux> All your pcav1 
17:07 < anitagraser> i'm here
17:07 <@timlinux> Just popped Gary an email in case he wants to attend
17:07 < pcav1> anita: can't see you in the list
17:07 < pcav1> anyway, let's start
17:08 < pcav1> Otto and Gary are unavailable, right?
17:08 < pcav1> let's recap:
17:08 < pcav1>     2.4 release: current state
17:08 < pcav1>     QGIS Server reference server?
17:08 < pcav1>     Donation appeal on download page
17:08 < pcav1>     Merchandising (stickers etc)
17:08 < pcav1>     Adding SVGs
17:09 < pcav1> release: jef wants to tell us?
17:10 < jef> 2 weeks into feature freeze, two weeks to go. 57 so called blockers.
17:11 < duiv> it is reasonable to have those fixed? Or should we extent? Or is funding needed?
17:11 <@timlinux> duiv: lets throw money at it rather than extend
17:11 < pcav1> timlinux: +1
17:11 < pcav1> in addition
17:11 <@timlinux> I like jef fixed cadence regieme
17:11 < anitagraser> timlinux: +1
17:11 < pcav1> not all blockers are relly serious issues
17:12 < jef> which is bad
17:12 <@timlinux> it makes it easier to plan work and tell clients what is going on
17:12 < pcav1> jef: what is bad?
17:12 < jef> makes "blockers" kind of pointless
17:12 < anitagraser> pcav1: will you downgrade them then?
17:12 < pcav1> I can do it
17:12 < pcav1> but we need a good working definition of a blocker
17:13 < pcav1> currently any regression is a blocker
17:13 < pcav1> even if it's a minor issue
17:13 < pcav1> which kind of make sense
17:13 < jef> to whom?
17:13 < pcav1> but of course gives trouble
17:13 < pcav1> the idea is that an user
17:13 < pcav1> should be able to upgrade
17:14 < pcav1> without breaking anything of his workflow
17:14 < pcav1> hi gsherman 
17:14 < gsherman> hi
17:14 <@timlinux> hey gsherman nice to see you here
17:14 < pcav1> sorry we started already
17:14 < gsherman> no worries; i'm barely awake
17:15 < mhugent> didn't we have similar blocker discussion for earlier releases?
17:15 < anitagraser> sure
17:16 <@timlinux> mhugent: hi - yeah we have had that discussion a few times
17:16 <@timlinux> I think giovanni has a list of what is considered a blocker somewhere
17:16 < pcav1> AFAIK a blocker is a regression
17:17 < pcav1> or something that makes basic functions unusable
17:17 < anitagraser>
17:17 < anitagraser> see steps - priority
17:17 < pcav1> we might add a further condition
17:17 < pcav1> i.e. that affects usability for a majority of users
17:18 < jef> is that still current?  I thought that was still tracish.
17:18 < anitagraser> i'm not aware of any more up to date version
17:18 < pcav1> I think it is taken as current
17:19 < mhugent> the condition 'totally unusable' might differ a lot between users
17:19 < pcav1> we can change it anyway
17:19 < pcav1> mhugent: the vast majority
17:19 < pcav1> are tagged as blockers because they are regressions
17:19 < pcav1> not because they make QGIS unusable
17:20 <@timlinux> Instead of getting into the what is a blocker debate, can fund Juergen / Martin / other interested parties to kill as many of the blockers as we can, starting with things that crash or corrupt data?
17:21 < pcav1> +1
17:21 < anitagraser> +1
17:21 < pcav1> and let them free to downgrade issues whenever they feel it appropriate
17:21 < mhugent> before voting on it, can we have a short update what it costs / approximate status of finances
17:21 < anitagraser> after all, that's wat we say we're raising money for (at least partially)
17:21 < mhugent> I remember the finances are in a pretty good state, right?
17:22 < pcav1> right
17:23 < pcav1> even though I still cannot access the figures :)
17:24 < mhugent> I remember the cost for bugfixing was 8k euro last time
17:24 < pcav1> anyway, we certainly have the same amount as the last release
17:24 < pcav1> maybe less
17:24 < mhugent> seems affordable, +1 from me
17:25 < jef> +0
17:25 < gsherman> +1 from me as long as you fix my bug :P
17:25 < anitagraser> same amount of money on the account or same amount of work to be funded?
17:27 < pcav1> same amount available
17:27 < pcav1> we should have much more
17:27 <@timlinux> +1 from me too 
17:28 <@timlinux> I think it is a very effective way to get a good release
17:28 < pcav1> ok, so we ask jef and martin?
17:28 < pcav1> same conditions as last time?
17:28 < jef> +1 to ask martin ;)
17:28 <@timlinux> yeah
17:28 < anitagraser> yes
17:28 < mhugent> +1 to ask jef
17:28 < pcav1> ok
17:28 <@timlinux> +1 to ask jef and martin
17:28 < anitagraser> +1
17:29 < pcav1> mhugent: you mean _not_ asking martin?
17:29 < pcav1> duiv: your vote?
17:29 < duiv> +1
17:29 < mhugent> no, I mean asking both (jef already mentioned '+1 martin')
17:29 < pcav1> fine
17:30 <@timlinux> Is there anyone else who may be interested?
17:30 < pcav1> so, anything else on the release?
17:30 <@timlinux> and to be fair do you think we should invite applications to be part of the paid fixing effort?
17:30 < anitagraser> timlinux: i'm not aware of anyone else
17:30 < pcav1> I'd be in favour of announcing once more the availability of a RC
17:30 < pcav1> just in case
17:30 <@timlinux> Im thinking Nathan, Nyall, Larry
17:30 < anitagraser> pcav1: where?
17:31 < pcav1> anywhere
17:31 < anitagraser> pcav1: I think Nathan just did
17:31 < pcav1> same announcement bounced over all media
17:31 < pcav1> I din't get it ;)
17:31 < pcav1> ok, then
17:31 < pcav1> one more thing
17:31 <@timlinux> also Matthius
17:32 < pcav1> we could take two routes:
17:32 < anitagraser> timlinux: imho we could invite the core devs
17:32 <@timlinux> yeah
17:32 < pcav1> 1. as last time: two top devs do all
17:32 < pcav1> 2. public announcement, anyone can join in
17:33 < pcav1> the second is more like a bounty scheme
17:33 < pcav1> more complex
17:33 <@timlinux> pcav1: I would suggest for now (as time is short) that we stick with team J&M
17:33 < pcav1> timlinux: +1
17:33 < duiv> +1
17:33 <@timlinux> but we try to solicit more funds for next time so that we can invite more
17:33 < anitagraser> pcav1:
17:33 < pcav1> I mentioned only to make the chjoice clear
17:33 < anitagraser> +1
17:34 <@timlinux> yes me too - I was just thinking strategically that things should be open
17:34 < pcav1> agreed
17:34 < pcav1> they are just much more complex to handle
17:34 <@timlinux> and not make it look like we exclude other potentially good devs from the chance to earn money fixing bugs
17:34 <@timlinux> yup
17:35 < pcav1> so, is this topic closed?
17:35 < pcav1> any other comment?
17:36 < pcav1> next one: QGIS Server reference server?
17:36 < pcav1> timlinux: ?
17:36 < pcav1> or duiv ?
17:36 <@timlinux> closed for me
17:36 < duiv> I put it there
17:36 < duiv> Anita was asking for it on IRC
17:37 < anitagraser> during the dev meeting, i talked to andreas hocevar who was working on openlayers 3 tutorials
17:37 < duiv> and I'm happy to try to create a docker one on qgis2, but it is just that I'm afraid of the load
17:37 <@timlinux> duiv: Andreas Neumann raised the idea of getting a decent exemplar project for QGIS server
17:37 < anitagraser> an i asked him if he would do a wfs-t example with qgis server
17:37 < anitagraser> he would if we have a reference server he can use
17:38 <@timlinux> it would be nice to have one running all supported OGC services
17:38 <@timlinux> duiv: IMHO opinion we should build the dockers and if the load gets high we can move them around between servers
17:38 < pcav1> it could also be used as a reference for testing
17:38 <@timlinux> I think they will provide a valuable service
17:38 < pcav1> the issue is, as always
17:38 <@timlinux> in terms of use being able to demonstrate QGIS server to people easily
17:39 < pcav1> who is going to do that?
17:39 < mhugent> Sourcepole would be available to host a reference server
17:39 <@timlinux> we should really have some QGIS owned maps running and linked from the main web site
17:39 < pcav1> I think managing it properli
17:39 < pcav1> y
17:39 < pcav1> is not a light task
17:39 <@timlinux> and linfiniti can host too
17:39 <@timlinux> pcav1: we manage it centrally with docker recipes
17:40 <@timlinux> and those who want to host simply build an instance and run it on their server
17:40 < pcav1> yes
17:40 < pcav1> but: who is going to manage it centrally?
17:40 < duiv> ok, so I setup a Debian with a stable QGIS-server running, and a mounted external disk for data?
17:40 < pcav1> keeping it updated, etc.
17:40 <@timlinux> the recipe?
17:41 < pcav1> timlinux: yes
17:41 <@timlinux> I think duiv and I can make it in consultation with mhugent (if you are ok to help)
17:41 < mhugent> ok for me
17:41 <@timlinux> cool
17:41 < jef> isn't there also a repository for docker files?
17:41 < anitagraser> great
17:41 < duiv> yep:
17:42 < pcav1> I would not like it if there is not an explicit responsibility
17:42 <@timlinux> and we can just host the recipe in git so folks can submit patches if they want to improveme it
17:42 < pcav1> an obsolete demo
17:42 < duiv> there is one there for the sphinx docker that we use for website/docs build
17:42 < pcav1> is worst than no demo :)
17:42 < jef> duiv: I meant from docker and not us
17:43 <@timlinux> jef there is a repo for docker images
17:43 <@timlinux> you upload your image and they distribute it
17:43 < duiv> ah, yes there is also, we already claimed the 'qgis' 'namespace' for that one
17:43 <@timlinux> and there is a way to have it rebuild the image as a hook when you push to your github repo
17:43 < duiv> only drawback is that the images should nog be bigger then...
17:44 <@timlinux> pcav1: well I think we agreed above - sourcepole can host one instance and linfiniti another from our side we will take responsibility to keep it online
17:44 < duiv> ah, there is also a pr
17:44 < jef> duiv: ok, so only full image and not just recipes
17:45 < duiv> not that I know, timlinux?
17:45 <@timlinux> host full images yes
17:45 <@timlinux> github hosts your recipe
17:45 < pcav1> timlinux: you mean keeping it online, or also upgrade it regularly?
17:45 <@timlinux> and then you can do like docker build <path to git repo>
17:45 <@timlinux> pcav1: both
17:46 <@timlinux> but I think the idea is to keep older ones running too? or do we only want to host image from latest release?
17:46 < jef> ok, so something like install docker, run this command and voila
17:46 <@timlinux> jef: yes
17:47 < anitagraser> do we need older ones?
17:47 <@timlinux> or register your github with and they build every time you push to gh and then someone can add a line like 'FROM QGSIS 2.4' to the top of their docker file to create a new image based on the official QGIS one
17:47 <@timlinux> anitagraser: on one had it will be baggage
17:48 < mhugent> I need to go
17:48 < mhugent> Bye all
17:48 -!- mhugent [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:48 <@timlinux> mhugent: ok cya!
17:48 < pcav1> bye mh
17:48 < anitagraser> bye
17:48 < duiv> bye marco
17:48 < pcav1> so, is there something to decide?
17:48 <@timlinux> anitagraser: on the other hand it might be useful if people want to test services against specific versions
17:48 <@timlinux> for now I thnk we should commit to host only latest
17:48 < anitagraser> +
17:48 < anitagraser> +1
17:48 <@timlinux> get used to doing that and revisit the idea later if needed
17:49 < jef> anyone know if the wcs service on is operational, needs to be moved, can be replaced with this?
17:50 < pcav1> jef: could it be Radim stuff?
17:50 < duiv> jef: it is still operational, I tried
17:50 < jef> I think so.  we're running tests against it, I think.
17:50 < duiv> yes, Radim's name is in it
17:50 < pcav1> se we should ask him before removing it
17:51 < duiv> I can try to just move (not remove) it to the new disk
17:51 < duiv> and also sent him an email
17:52 <@timlinux> Im pretty sure it is not used anymore
17:52 <@timlinux> I set up the original one for him
17:52 < jef> btw I removed the site as it was pointing at /var/www/qgis_web_new (or something similary)
17:52 <@timlinux> it was using mapserver not QGIS server iirc
17:52 < duiv> jef: I also did some cleaning up
17:53 < duiv> so: I am going to create a docker image with help of Tim and Marco to help OL3 devs
17:53 < duiv> next point?
17:53 < pcav1> Donation appeal on download page
17:54 < pcav1> who added it?
17:54 < jef> it's already there?  looking
17:54 < pcav1> seems so
17:54 < duiv> which page?
17:55 <@timlinux> that was my point
17:55 < duiv> ah, you WANT one there
17:55 <@timlinux> yes
17:56 < duiv> it's plain html:
17:56 < pcav1> sorry, I do not get your point
17:56 <@timlinux> So if you go to ubuntu or libre office they have a thing that the page redirects to a 'while you are waiting why dont you donate' page
17:56 <@timlinux> I listened to an interview with a libre office guy who said it has been very effective
17:56 <@timlinux> wait let me give an explicit url
17:56 <@timlinux> 1 sec
17:56 < pcav1> ok, now I got it
17:57 < pcav1> so, +1
17:57 <@timlinux>
17:57 < duiv> I always have the feeling that that is fake :-) That it has a timeout of 30 sec just to show me something....
17:57 <@timlinux> The guy basically said that there is a psychological advantage of asking at teh point of download
17:57 <@timlinux> 1) you have the person's undivided attention
17:58 <@timlinux> 2) they are feeling thrilled of getting this new thing for free
17:58 <@timlinux> 3) they have nothing else to do while they wait
17:58 < jef> duiv: hm, did I miss to translate "get the release candidate..." sentence on the de front page or did you do it manually for nl?
17:58 <@timlinux> ok we know those arent all strictly true
17:58 < duiv> jef: nope you are late ;-)
17:58 < duiv> lol
17:58 <@timlinux> thats a first
17:58 <@timlinux> :-P
17:59 < anitagraser> +0 on the donations popup/whatever
17:59 < duiv> I can create a page like that, it's just not clear how to redirect people to it
18:00 < duiv> you call it with some url in the query, so it the download will start after you see this page or so
18:00 <@timlinux> anitagraser: some particular objection?
18:01 <@timlinux> you prefer the 'QGIS is not trying to hit people up for cash when they download' ethos?
18:01 < anitagraser> i just tried the link above and i find it quite confusing. just the tiny link "take me to the download" 
18:01 <@timlinux> IMHO if we make it really clear that no payment is needed (more clear than ubuntu)
18:01 <@timlinux> anitagraser: yeah I agree - Im not suggesting we copy exactly their page
18:02 <@timlinux> but more the idea of having a convenient way to donate at the point you download
18:02 < anitagraser> sure, when the user downloads, you forward to a welcome page with a donate button or something like that
18:03 < duiv> I can try out something. Seems not so difficult using some javascript.
18:04 < duiv> next?
18:04 < pcav1> Merchandising (stickers etc)
18:04 < pcav1> amita?
18:04 < pcav1> naita?
18:04 < pcav1> aaargh
18:05 < pcav1> Anita
18:05 < anitagraser> any more details?
18:05 < anitagraser> who added it?
18:05 < pcav1> not me
18:06 <@timlinux> me
18:06 < duiv> I like QGIS stickers...
18:06 <@timlinux> I am in Indonesia at the moment
18:06 < anitagraser> do you have a shop on mind?
18:06 < anitagraser> of course i can design some
18:06 <@timlinux> and they happen to have a really cheap industry for printing
18:06 < anitagraser> similar to the poster colors/style
18:06 <@timlinux> I had a couple of posters made onto canvas (see my tweet stream)
18:07 <@timlinux> and thought I could get a batch of say 1000 stickers made
18:07 <@timlinux> was wondering if we could fund it from QGIS funds
18:07 < anitagraser> what's the price point?
18:07 <@timlinux> and use them for promotion
18:07 <@timlinux> or to sell at a rediculous profit to make funds for QGIS
18:07 < pcav1> fine for me
18:07 <@timlinux> anitagraser: I will investigate prices on teh weekend, but first I need a design :->
18:08 < pcav1> only issue with this
18:08 < pcav1> they are needed across the globe
18:08 < anitagraser> timlinux: why?
18:08 < pcav1> and are never there when you want it
18:08 < anitagraser> number of colors?
18:08 < anitagraser> shape?
18:08 < anitagraser> but that goes both ways
18:08 <@timlinux> pcav1: I was thinking more to bring them to the hf and hand them over to folks there
18:08 <@timlinux> and we could each take say 100
18:09 < pcav1> good idea
18:09 <@timlinux> and sell / give them out to folks
18:09 < pcav1> +1
18:09 < duiv> +1
18:09 < anitagraser> +1
18:09 <@timlinux> anitagraser: so I was thinking of round decal that I can cover that silly apple / dell / etc logo on the back of my laptop with
18:09 < pcav1> +1!
18:09 < anitagraser> timlinux: lets get this discussed on mail in detail then
18:10 <@timlinux> basically if you can make up a design I will get prices
18:10 <@timlinux> ok
18:10 <@timlinux> good
18:10 < pcav1> I use a very nice PostgreSQL sticker
18:10 <@timlinux> be nicer to use a QGIS sticker eh?
18:10 <@timlinux> :-)
18:10 < gsherman> whatever happend to brand loyalty...
18:10 < pcav1> if we have a QGIS one, I can finally replace my laptop ;)
18:10 <@timlinux> ok
18:10 <@timlinux> pcav1: hehe
18:10 < duiv> I would say: small stickers with only the logo, and maybe one with our 'vision': "we make the world (go) round" or so?
18:10 <@timlinux> gsherman: hold up your coffee mug and show 'em :-)
18:11 <@timlinux> ok
18:11 <@timlinux> basically send me any designs you can come up with over the weekend
18:11 <@timlinux> I will go to the printing district on sunday evening
18:11 < gsherman> my mug is for Quantum GIS, not the usurper QGIS
18:11 <@timlinux> and take designs with me and get quotes
18:11 <@timlinux> I leave here next fri so I dont have much time
18:11 <@timlinux> gsherman: ah your mug is deprecated
18:11 < pcav1> maybe we should add the trademark symbol ;)
18:11 < anitagraser> ok, ill see what i can come up with in a few hours
18:12 <@timlinux> do we have the tm yet?
18:12 <@timlinux> anitagraser: thanks
18:12 < gsherman> i'm deprecated
18:12 <@timlinux> heh me too
18:13 < anitagraser> ok, last point?
18:13 < anitagraser> Adding SVGs
18:13 <@timlinux> what is it about?
18:13 < anitagraser> i guess: What's the status of icon/symbology/style sharing web infrastructure? (Relating to Paolo's request [Qgis-developer] Adding SVG symbols)
18:14 <@timlinux> ah
18:14 <@timlinux> well as mentioned last meeting Christian started with me 1 June and I will get him to look at it in this month
18:14 <@timlinux> so nothing to report yet
18:15 < anitagraser> ok
18:15 < duiv> this was a gsoc project isn't it?
18:15 <@timlinux> I thought someone was going to bring up the 'svg browser background makes it impossible to see the previews in qgis' :-)
18:15 < pcav1> yes
18:15 <@timlinux> duiv: yes
18:15 <@timlinux> but ale didnt feel it was production ready
18:15 <@timlinux> so we will get christian to review it in detail
18:16 < duiv> ok, because volaya is busy with some github based algorithm thingie also
18:16 < duiv> but first then let see what christian thinks of current setup
18:17 < pcav1> ok
18:18 <@timlinux> duiv: that is for processing plugin sharing right?
18:18 < duiv> yep
18:18 < duiv> for algorithms and script for processing
18:18 <@timlinux> yeah not sure how well that would translate to svg sharing
18:19 < pcav1> but in the meantime I'd like to know if it's possible to add some set straight away
18:19 < anitagraser> so far, i think we've been arguing that performance suffers when too many svg resources are added, right?
18:20 < duiv> timlinux: well I like the fact that there is just a directory structure (in github) with some naming conventions for descriptions and being able to version those
18:20 <@timlinux> yeah
18:21 <@timlinux> anitagraser: right but I think we can find ways around that
18:21 < duiv> I think icons is like fonts and styles, everybody want it's own way
18:21 <@timlinux> the svgs desperately need some clean out but we will break everyones project if we do
18:21 < pcav1> yes
18:22 < pcav1> I think we should add better versions
18:22 < pcav1> then deprecate the current ones
18:22 < pcav1> and remove them only in 3.0
18:22 < anitagraser> +1
18:23 <@timlinux> even then people will complain bitterly :-(
18:23 < anitagraser> timlinux: give them an emergency download somewhere
18:23 < pcav1> yes
18:24 < pcav1> or even leave them
18:24 < pcav1> in the meantime (sorry to insist)
18:24 <@timlinux> I need to call it a night folks
18:24 < pcav1> it would be good to have guidelines/templates
18:25 < pcav1> 1 sec
18:25 <@timlinux> big day of QGIS community building here in JK tomorrow!
18:25 < pcav1> for SVG to be acceptable
18:25 < pcav1> good luck then!
18:25 < pcav1> maybe anita and andreas could write down such guidelines?
18:26 < anitagraser> andreas for the color changing part?
18:26 <@timlinux> cheers all - thanks again for publishing the plugin builder updates gsherman !
18:27 < gsherman> timlinux, sure, you did all the work
18:27 < gsherman> i'm just a "button pusher" :)
18:27 < pcav1> anita: would you like to do it?
18:27 <@timlinux> well a most very excellent job of button pushing you have done :-)
18:27 <@timlinux> cheers
18:28 < anitagraser> i can do it but can't promis when it's read
18:28 < anitagraser> ready
18:32 < anitagraser> ok. any other things we should discuss?
18:33 < anitagraser> otherwise, timlinux, i'll get in contact with some drafts
18:33 < duiv> who is taking the lead in the funding of jef/martin/coredevs to get 2.4 in shape?
18:36 < duiv> jef: are you ok with this plan. As you are the release manager in charge....
18:36 < jef> duiv: yes, I'm ok with the plan to fund core devs.
18:37 < duiv> good. Thanks
18:38 < duiv> pcav1: finishing up?
18:39 < pcav1> I think so
18:39 < pcav1> I can take the lead on this, if nobody else is available
18:39 < pcav1> gsherman: ?
18:40 < duiv> ok. See you next time then..
18:40 < duiv> bye
18:41 < pcav1> bye