History

PSC Meeting 6 February 2015

Proposed meeting time:

Friday 6th February, 1430 UTC, 5:30 AKDT, 1630 SAST, 00:30(27th) AEST, 1530 CEST

http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?qm=1&lid=2759794,2174003,5879400,3369157&h=2759794&date=2015-2-6&sln=15.5-18

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IRC: #qgis_meeting_150206

Members Present:

  • Gary Sherman
  • Otto Dassau
  • Paolo Cavallini
  • Richard Duivenvoorde
  • Tim Sutton
  • Jürgen Fischer
  • Andreas Neumann(guest)

Agenda:

Log

--- Log opened Fr Feb 06 14:33:18 2015
14:33 -!- jef [fischer@qgis/developer/jef] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
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14:33 -!- jef changed the topic of #qgis_meeting_150206 to: Friday 6th February, 1430 UTC, 5:30 AKDT, 1630 SAST, 00:30(27th) AEST, 1530 CEST
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15:22 < timlinux> thanks
15:22 < timlinux> hi
15:28 -!- dassau [[email protected]] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
15:28 < dassau> Hi all
15:29 < dassau> will we meet in 5 min oder 1h and 5 min?
15:29 <@jef> yes, 1530 CEST - unless the wiki page is wrong.
15:29 <@jef> S? um.
15:30 <@jef> it's 1430 UTC now.
15:31 < dassau> Hi jef: ok, then it should be now
15:32 < dassau> but seems to be at 1530, I guess
15:32 < timlinux> I thought we are meeting now?
15:33 < dassau> right, me too
15:33 <@jef> 1530 CEST would have been 1h ago - 1530 CET is now.
15:34 <@jef> where are the others? the meeting ought to start 4 minutes ago.
15:34 -!- pcav [[email protected]] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
15:35 < timlinux> Well shall we start and let them join as they come?
15:35 <@jef> pcav: does you client automatically join on invite or was that mere coincidence?
15:36 < duiv> I'm here
15:37 < duiv> anita is not coming
15:37 < timlinux> is the android container a long running one or do they start it each time to make a build?
15:38 < duiv> it is a long running one if I understood correctly from mkuhn
15:38 < duiv> with a cronjob in it or so
15:41 < timlinux> Ok then lets start
15:41 < timlinux> I have a 2 hour cap on this meeting
15:42 < duiv> me too
15:43 < duiv> do we do the agenda from top to bottom?
15:43 < timlinux> does someone have the agenda link handy
15:43 < duiv> http://hub.qgis.org/wiki/quantum-gis/PSC_Meeting_6_February_2015
15:44 < timlinux> thanks
15:44 -!- jef changed the topic of #qgis_meeting_150206 to: http://hub.qgis.org/wiki/quantum-gis/PSC_Meeting_6_February_2015 - Friday 6th February, 1430 UTC, 5:30 AKDT, 1630 SAST, 00:30(27th) AEST, 1530 CEST
15:44 < timlinux> can we move the hackfest to the top?
15:44 < duiv> sure
15:44 <@jef> that doesn't seem to be a hf.   I didn't realize that it is all week
15:45 < timlinux> ok moved it in the agenda and made small change
15:45 < duiv> did you talk to lene?
15:45 < timlinux> so thats why I just wanted to explain what is going on
15:45 < timlinux> yes
15:45 < pcav> hi all
15:45 < pcav> sorry I'm late
15:45 < timlinux> hi Paolo
15:45 < timlinux> can I go on?
15:45 < duiv> yep
15:45 < timlinux> so the idea is that the hackfest will be preceeded by a 2 day user conf
15:46 < pcav> sure timlinux 
15:46 < timlinux> so to asnwer your q jef if you only want to hack, just come for the last 3 days
15:46 < timlinux> http://ign.ku.dk/english/outreach-publications/conferences-seminars/international-qgis-user-and-developer-conference/
15:46 < timlinux> THis is the proposed page for the conf / hf
15:46 < timlinux> hopefully it makes things clearer
15:47 < timlinux> the content of that page is a google doc which I shared with you all
15:47 < timlinux> They have their own danish system similar to eventbrite
15:47 < timlinux> https://www.etouches.com/ereg/index.php?eventid=117583&
15:47 < timlinux> please dont actually register yet - this is just to show you what is planned
15:48 < timlinux> she will tell me when the reg page is ready to use
15:48 < timlinux> the idea is that we have a 'pay what you like' system
15:48 < timlinux> with some guidelines on ideal payments
15:48 < timlinux> from the funs we make she needs to cover costs at their facility
15:49 < timlinux> (conf snakes, supper for 1 night of user conf, etc)
15:49 < timlinux> and asked if they can take a portion of profits to help set up a QGIS User Group in Denmark
15:49 < timlinux> I said I dont have an issue with that but will ask it here at the meeting
15:49 < timlinux> we can get her to clarify what ratios she has in mind
15:50 < timlinux> As for the venue it holds ~150 people (mainly limited by the main lecture hall)
15:50 < timlinux> and there is a residence associated with it
15:50 < timlinux> so HF participants can stay there
15:50 < timlinux> and on into sat and sun too if they want
15:51 < timlinux> they take care of any costs for accom for hf participants
15:52 < timlinux> and because of limited seating they asked that for the user conf part, hf participants register separately so for the first two days 'normal' users can have tickets as priority
15:52 < duiv> http://hub.qgis.org/wiki/quantum-gis/13_QGIS_Developer_Meeting_in_Copenhagen_2015
15:52 < timlinux> and for the hg part geeks get attendance as priority
15:53 < timlinux> Once she is ready with above links I suggested we put a banned add on QGIS front page pointing to their site
15:53 < timlinux> I think we will try to migrate content from the wiki to their page and perhaps mirror their page on QGIS.org
15:53 < timlinux> under 'User conferences'
15:54 < timlinux> the idea is to have every second HF preceeded by a user conf if this is a success
15:54 < timlinux> does everything sound ok?
15:54 < pcav> yes
15:54 < duiv> yep, but that is a lot of organisation...
15:54 < timlinux> I volunteered to be PSC liason with lene
15:54 < timlinux> and she is doing all the local org
15:54 < timlinux> organisation
15:54 < timlinux> and she is co-opting student volunteers
15:55 < timlinux> duiv: any suggestions?
15:55 < timlinux> my hope is that we can:
15:55 < timlinux> 1) make some nice money for QGIS from the conf
15:55 < timlinux> 2) create a nice platform for users
15:56 < timlinux> 3) get more publicity and outreach by having user conferences
15:56 < timlinux> --- eof
15:56 < duiv> I think the plan is good, althougt not sure if you can make money with it, if you keep the price free.
15:56 < duiv> but time will tell
15:56 < timlinux> The idea was also to invite specific speakers (see my email to Lene cc'd to psc from a few weeks back - will dig out a link in a sec)
15:57 < timlinux> duiv: the price is not free
15:57 < timlinux> it is 'pay what you like'
15:57 < pcav> duiv: I think they can find sponsors
15:57 < duiv> don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of ta user conf
15:57 < timlinux> so if you cant afford it you can come for free (but you must still pay for the meail if you want to attend the dinner)
15:58 < timlinux> but otherwise we are suggesting prices based on your status (professional, corportate, stinking rich oil baron)
15:58 < timlinux> pcav: yes we could definately look for sponsors too
15:59 < timlinux> duiv: yes it is a possibility that everyone chooses to come for free and we fail miserably
15:59 < timlinux> but I think that wont happen
15:59 < timlinux> and we will be inclusive to people of all walks of life
15:59 < duiv> nope, agreed
15:59 < dassau> in Germany you have to be part of some fossgis project community to get free entrance
15:59 < timlinux> I think fossgis had a similar system and didng have any issue
15:59 < pcav> agreed
15:59 < timlinux> dassau: hmm interesting
15:59 < dassau> and other usually don't mind paying for it
16:00 < dassau> or better their company pays
16:00 < timlinux> ya
16:00 < timlinux> my suggestion is 'lets try it and see'
16:00 < timlinux> we dont have much to lose
16:00 < dassau> yes, good idea
16:00 < duiv> so: what's to do with this plan? Just 'fiat' it, and monitor status?
16:00 < timlinux> btw our conf coincides exactly with an ESRI conf in Denmark it seems
16:01 < timlinux> entry is liek EUR 500 per person
16:01 < timlinux> liek
16:01 < timlinux> like
16:01 <@jef> duiv: fiat?
16:01 < duiv> give green light
16:01 < duiv> (me dutchie...)
16:01 < timlinux> well that is for you to all decide, obviously I am happy with it since it is what Lene and I came up with
16:02 < timlinux> but more than happy to take suggestions or do things differently if others want to
16:02 < timlinux> I feel very comfortable that Lene will represent us well and do a good job of organising it
16:02 < timlinux> I think her coming to Essen was a great way to engage with us
16:03 < pcav> +1
16:03 -!- aneumann [[email protected]] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
16:03 <@jef> hi andreas
16:03 < aneumann> hi
16:03 < timlinux> I promised to be a 'PSC hotline' and gave her my cell number etc so she can be easily in contact with us
16:04 < timlinux> Aparently we cant sleep in the tree without a guide - about the only downer I came across so far :-P
16:05 < timlinux> (they have a tree house 20m up in a tree or something)
16:05 -!- gsherman [~gsherman@qgis/developer/gsherman] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
16:05 < duiv> hi gary
16:05 < gsherman> hi
16:05 < timlinux> One thing that would be good is to get community members to give key talks
16:05 < timlinux> hey gsherman
16:05 < gsherman> hi
16:06 < timlinux> https://gist.github.com/timlinux/c722743f356c0e50e8ca <-- logs of what we discussed so far for those who just arrived
16:06 < aneumann> timlinux:?áthanks!
16:06 < timlinux> anyway that is the basis of my update, there will be more input needed as we go on
16:07 < timlinux> I made a shared google docs folder
16:07 < timlinux> that we can use to keep a record of materials we come up with
16:07 < timlinux> so that if we do this again in future we dont have to start from scratch
16:07 < timlinux> psc should all have access to it and can share it with others (e.g. aneumann) as needed
16:08 < aneumann> I'd be interested to help with the conf
16:08 < timlinux> that would be awesome thanks aneumann
16:09 < timlinux> I was going to copt you to be a speaker to
16:09 < timlinux> to present a case study of what you do in uster
16:09 < pcav> timlinux: why not adding this as conf-howto in the GH governance?
16:10 < timlinux> yes good idea
16:10 < aneumann> sure - we also make some good progress on the waste-water module - which would be an interesting presentation
16:10 < timlinux> lets go through the process and create notes for gov docs retrospectively
16:11 < aneumann> makes sense
16:11 < pcav> timlinux: I'm a bit worried of spreading important info on yet another infrastructure
16:12 < pcav> I'd like to keep things compact
16:12 < pcav> we still have the mostly obsolete wiki hanging around
16:12 < timlinux> pcav: yeah but as a quick dumping ground for info google docs cant be beat
16:13 < timlinux> and for people like Lene they are not going to cope with rst
16:13 < pcav> for tmp is fine
16:13 < aneumann> I agree - it is quite convenient
16:13 < pcav> but I'd like to consolidate important info
16:13 < pcav> anyway
16:13 < timlinux> pcav: but for long term yes we should migrate important docs into sphinx
16:13  * duiv looking at the dates: mon and tue user conf, wed till sun dev?
16:14 < duiv> that's a long one isn't it?
16:14 < timlinux> duiv: wed, thur, fri
16:14 < timlinux> but devs can stay on for sat night if they want
16:14 < timlinux> every one needs to be out on the sun
16:14 < timlinux> so if you want to e.g. stay a day to do touristing
16:14 < timlinux> they dont mind if you stay longer
16:15 < timlinux> and if folks want to hang out and hack more on the sat that is fine too
16:15 < duiv> let's put that clear on the wiki page, as I think that's first stop for most devs
16:16 < timlinux> yeah - I was going to suggest to point the wiki page to the page I gave above
16:16 < duiv> with a link to the http://ign.ku.dk page
16:16 < timlinux> so there is a single point of truth
16:16 < duiv> yep
16:16 < timlinux> lets just wait for Lene to green light that we can let folks start registering
16:18 < duiv> next point?
16:18 < timlinux> over to you
16:19 < timlinux> Paolo I guess - course acreditation
16:19 < pcav> ok
16:19 < pcav> in fact it's more of a topic for Tim
16:20 < pcav> I'm just trying to keep the ball rolling
16:21 < pcav> so my idea is that a QGIS course certification program is important
16:21 < pcav> opinions?
16:22 < timlinux> yes and I have given it zero attention so far this year
16:22 < timlinux> :-(
16:22 < timlinux> but it is important
16:23 < aneumann> you plan to certify the course instructors or standardize/certify the course content?
16:23 < timlinux> PCAV can I suggest that we schedule a special topic meeting for it here on IRC on a separate occasion
16:23 < timlinux> aneumann: both ideally
16:23 < pcav> ok timlinux 
16:23 < timlinux> and also create an examination platform
16:24 < aneumann> ok for separate discussion
16:24 < timlinux> I created a test one at http://certification.kartoza.com (I'm still waiting for feedback from test users to say if they think it will be a suitable platform or not)
16:25 < aneumann> I remember seeing that in Essen.
16:25 < timlinux> pcav: so lets fix a time / date now and move it to there
16:25 < pcav> ok, you suggest :)
16:25 < timlinux> next thursday same time as this meeting?
16:25 < timlinux> 15h30 cet?
16:26 < timlinux> or whatever the time was supposed to be for this meeting?
16:26 < pcav> hopefully I'll be there
16:26 < timlinux> 16h30 GMT +2
16:26 < timlinux> pcav: or suggest a time where you can be there?
16:26 < timlinux> I am away that weekend so cant do the fri
16:26 < pcav> nope, I'm travelling, I'll do my best
16:27 < aneumann> for me 30 mins earlier would be better
16:27 < pcav> however, I think you can do without me, in case
16:28 < timlinux> pcav: I think you should be there too
16:28 < pcav> thanks
16:28 < timlinux> so a different day?
16:28 < timlinux> what works for you?
16:28 < pcav> noted, I'll be there if at all possible
16:29 < timlinux> aneumann: 30 min earlier or even 1 hour earlier is good for me
16:29 < timlinux> I will send out a general message to the community list 
16:30 < timlinux> can I confirm then 4pm GMT+2?
16:30 < aneumann> yes
16:31 < pcav> I think others should be invited too
16:31 < pcav> there are many interested in courses
16:31 < timlinux> yes I will send to dev and community list
16:32 < pcav> thansk timlinux 
16:34 < timlinux> ok sent
16:35 < timlinux> next is yours Paolo?
16:35 < timlinux> Credits for contribution?
16:35 < pcav> yes
16:35 < pcav> the idea is clear I think
16:36 < timlinux> can you recap your suggested path to conclusion on this?
16:36 < pcav> giving credits may encourage contribution
16:36 < pcav> but we do not want to be full of adverts
16:36 < aneumann> I?áthink one of the best ways to give credits is the visual changelog
16:36 < duiv> I think the suggestion about using the visual changelog for some thing is good
16:36 < pcav> agreed
16:36 < aneumann> something like "this feature was sponsored by ...
16:37 < timlinux> up until no except for official sponsors I explicitly avoided putting credits there
16:37 < timlinux> because the feeling in the past was that it is easy to leave someone out
16:37 < timlinux> and demotivate contributors
16:37 < pcav> timlinux: you are right also
16:37 < aneumann> why would it demotivate?
16:38 < timlinux> well if I name Joe X for his small feature but leave out Bob  for his big feature he will think we suck and go away to work on esri plugins
16:38 < timlinux> more specifically because the changelog is about visual changes
16:38 < timlinux> if you spend 3 months cleaning up the API
16:38 < timlinux> you might not even get mentioned
16:38 < timlinux> but someone who makes a pretty new dialog will
16:39 < timlinux> so it is not a very fair system
16:39 < aneumann> well - we can still mention "less visible"?áchanges in the visual changelog
16:39 < aneumann> some of the QGIS?áserver improvements are not very visual
16:39 < timlinux> or we could just include the complete list of people in CONTRIBUTORS
16:39 < aneumann> we could transform the visual changelog into a general release notes document
16:39 <@jef> like a qt update in osgeo4w that strictly isn't qgis at all.
16:40 < aneumann> where we can list what we want
16:40 < timlinux> yeah it doesnt have to be purely visual changes, but we will still end up leaving people out
16:40 < timlinux> as per jef's example above
16:40 < timlinux> and what about translators
16:41 < timlinux> or Richard slaving away for hours to make the docs work
16:41 < timlinux> etc
16:41 < aneumann> we can still mention such efforts
16:41 < timlinux> I think the fairest way to attribute individual effort is to congratulate the community as a whole and not try to identify individuals
16:41 -!- gsherman [~gsherman@qgis/developer/gsherman] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:41 < aneumann> Personally, I?ábelieve, if other organizations see that org x is sponsoring
16:41 < timlinux> aneumann: but how would you make a proper exhaustive list?
16:42 < aneumann> it will motivate other orgs to sponsor at well
16:42 < timlinux> sure
16:42 < timlinux> no dispute
16:42 < aneumann> it would be a way to motivate more paid development, which would accelerate
16:42 < aneumann> the project
16:42 < timlinux> I just think it ignores the individual efforts and makes donating orgs looks like the heros
16:43 < timlinux> so IMHO we should tread carefully
16:43 < timlinux> otherwise we transition from a grass roots project to a top down project
16:43 < aneumann> That I don't fear
16:43 < aneumann> interest in QGIS?áis diverse and there are so many orgs involved
16:43 < aneumann> that noone really dominates
16:44 -!- gsherman [[email protected]] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
16:44 < timlinux> So why dont we make an honour roll
16:44 < aneumann> But I agree that the voluntary work should be properly attributed
16:44 < timlinux> composed of CONTRIBUTORS + orgs that pay for features
16:45 < pcav> one question is: how far back do we want to go?
16:45 < timlinux> and just list it as part of the release
16:45 < gsherman> june 2002
16:45 < timlinux> haha
16:45 < gsherman> :P
16:45 < timlinux> so we have https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/blob/master/doc/CONTRIBUTORS
16:46 < timlinux> why not just make two files:
16:46 < pcav> so listing only new features and new contribution, right?
16:46 < timlinux> CONTRIBUTING-INDIVIDUALS
16:46 < timlinux> and CONTRIBUTING-ORGANISATIONS
16:47 < timlinux> and let people list in a field after their name / org name the key things they did (or think they did :-) )
16:47 < aneumann> I?áthink it would be valuable to have this information directly in the visual changelog
16:47 < timlinux> then we reproduce the entire combined list at the bottom of each release announcement / changelog
16:47 < aneumann> that way orgs with similar interests can hook with each other
16:47 < timlinux> yes  ^^^
16:48 < timlinux> see my line between yours
16:48 < timlinux> note that currently contributors only includes people who have made patches
16:48 < timlinux> so we still should include others who do docs, testing, bug queue triaging etc etc
16:49 < pcav> as always
16:49 < pcav> it is difficult to draw a line
16:49 < timlinux> its very easy to leave someone out and offend them so there should be an easy mechanism for anyone to make sure they are added into the right list
16:49 < pcav> yes
16:49 < timlinux> btw I think gdal has something like this in their releases 1 sec
16:50 < timlinux> hmm I htought it was them maybe it was another project
16:50 < timlinux> https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/Release/1.9.0-News
16:50 < timlinux> in their annoucenemtns the just state the changes
16:51 < timlinux> (not that we have to copy them of course)
16:51 < aneumann> I?áwould even suggest that the changelog should also list who developed it. It would be good advertising for the developer.
16:53 < timlinux> You mean the sponsoring org + developer contracted?
16:53 < aneumann> yes
16:53 < timlinux> yeah - again that would be covered by my suggestion above
16:53 < aneumann> so if one is interested in more composer stuff he can see who did the other stuff
16:53 < aneumann> and thus knows the dev is familiar with this section of the code
16:53 < timlinux> e.g. Nyall adds in the space next to his name 'made composer foo for company bar'
16:54 < timlinux> yup
16:54 < aneumann> again - it would mean that we should also list less visible improvements as well
16:55 < timlinux> We should put out a call first asking all individuals and orgs who have ever contributed to QGIS to please add their names
16:55 < timlinux> maybe I can (sorry Paolo) whip up another google form
16:55 < timlinux> to let people stick their info in there
16:57 < aneumann> I?áwould just start with the next release and not dig too much in the past - to avoid too much work.
16:57 < timlinux> ok
16:58 < timlinux> can you or someone help with it?
16:58 < timlinux> I probably have may plate full doing the changelog content
16:59 < aneumann> I?áthink most devs can help with that - if we provide the necessary fields in the changelog.
16:59 < timlinux> ok
16:59 < duiv> let's not change the changelog app for now plz
16:59 < duiv> let's concentrate on a good changelog for 2.8
16:59 < timlinux> yeah I think the conversation goes back in a circle again
16:59 <@jef> duiv: are you in the middle of migrating it to qgis.org? ;)
17:00 < duiv> nope
17:00 < timlinux> also on my long todo list :-(
17:00 < timlinux> sorry I never got to it yet
17:01 < timlinux> anyway it gets published on QGIS.org
17:01 < duiv> timlinux: do not worry, it's ok where it is...
17:01 < timlinux> the changelong.linfiniti.com is not meant to be passed to the public
17:01 < aneumann> so it is too complicated to add two fields?
17:01 -!- strk [~strk@unaffiliated/strk] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
17:02 < duiv> put it on my list to migrate it to qgis2 then
17:02 <@jef> timlinux: ok, with me.  either there - it probably would timeout on qgis.org anyway
17:02 < timlinux> haha
17:02 < timlinux> anyway I will migrate it to qgis.org eventually
17:02 < timlinux> we could actually just point that dns to my server as an alias
17:03 < duiv> timlinux: let's do that for now :-)
17:03 < duiv> some of us want to leave in about 30 mins
17:04 < duiv> anything else on the agenda what needs to be cracked 
17:04 < aneumann> what about the 2.8 bug fixing? Still something to discuss?
17:04 < pcav> I do not think so
17:04 < duiv> jef and martin are recruited if I'm correct...
17:05 < aneumann> yes
17:05 <@jef> duiv: I think so.
17:05 < duiv> jef: you anything to add about the release proces or fixing?
17:06 <@jef> duiv: not really.
17:06 < timlinux> 78.46.89.12 <-- ok will you just point changelog.qgis.org to that?
17:06 < duiv> yep, will do that
17:07 < timlinux> Ive added an alias already
17:07 < timlinux> aneumann: lets discuss it some more - we will figure something out
17:07 < timlinux> (attribution)
17:07 < timlinux> out of this meeting
17:07 < aneumann> by email?
17:08 < timlinux> yup - given the concerns I raised perhaps you can draft a proposal and send to the PSC list?
17:08 < aneumann> ok
17:08 < timlinux> ie come up with something that doesnt ignore 'non coder' effort
17:09 < aneumann> yes
17:09 < timlinux> great
17:10 < timlinux> QEP process?
17:10 < duiv> I asked NathanW about his ideas about the QEP proces, but he is not around
17:10 < duiv> I'll  ask him to write something to the psc list
17:11 < duiv> we had the feeling that the proces need some changes, as the voting was not always clear/smooth
17:11 < timlinux> IMHO we need in genral a voting app
17:11 < timlinux> with a clear question
17:11 < timlinux> and that keeps a record of who voted and date and final outcome
17:12 < timlinux> it was on our roadmap for hte changelog app
17:12 < timlinux> (its actually implemented but not really tried to use it in anger)
17:12 < duiv> well a problem for me is that I need to vote about something which I do not feel comforatble to judge about
17:12 < timlinux> then you must vote 0
17:12 < duiv> not the actual voting
17:12 <@jef> perhaps it should be the other way round.   veto instead of approval
17:13 < timlinux> I think I suggested similar to Nathan
17:13 < timlinux> like 'no more than 3 no votes'
17:13 < timlinux> though I dont know if that completely solves the problem
17:13 < timlinux> another option is proxy voting
17:13 < timlinux> ie. ask someone you trust in the area to vote on your behalf
17:14 < timlinux> we do it in the management body of our apartment - so we let someone else make our vote knowing he also doenst like the building painted with purple and yellow spots
17:15 < timlinux> and another options is to restrict QEP to fairly high level topics
17:15 < timlinux> if someone wants to change a class name it should not be a QEP vote
17:15 < pcav> something like Py3 etc?
17:15 < duiv> http://changelog.qgis.org/qgis/version/2.8/  <= plz update and make it a long list
17:16 < duiv> I think we should discuss this with Nathan, and he told me about the same ideas...
17:16 < aneumann> Maybe the PSC?áshould nominate a team of core devs to make tech decisions.
17:16 < aneumann> given that many on PSC?áare not devs
17:17 < duiv> yes, that is the proxying idea. That I ask ... jef ;-) to vote for me
17:17 < duiv> if it get's to technical
17:17 <@jef> hm, can proxies nominate proxies? ;)
17:18 < aneumann> ;-)
17:18 < duiv> nono, then we get circular references.... we do not want that
17:18 <@jef> if it's about the composer I let nyall vote for us - about his qep :)
17:18 < timlinux> they might start self replicating :-)
17:18 <@jef> or can I only nominate psc members?
17:19 < aneumann> I think a team of 5 core devs, nominated for a given time period (a year or two) would work fine.
17:19 -!- pcav1 [[email protected]] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
17:19 < aneumann> 5 is good to avoid decision locks
17:19 < timlinux> jef: proxy could be anyone
17:19 -!- pcav [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:21 < pcav1> may i ask a quick question?
17:21 < duiv> plz do
17:21 <@jef> qed
17:23 < timlinux> ....
17:23 < pcav1> should I go on with the shhop?
17:23 < timlinux> yes
17:23 < duiv> pcav1: yes
17:23 < timlinux> we need to get that running
17:23 < pcav1> and aask bob to proceed?
17:23 < timlinux> and swag advertised on the front page
17:23 < aneumann> guys - I need to leave - sorry.
17:23 < aneumann> bye
17:23 < duiv> yes, just create the shop and give credentials to bob
17:23 < timlinux> thanks aneumann!
17:23 < timlinux> cya
17:23 < pcav1> dassau, jef, gsherman : agreed?
17:23 < duiv> by aneumann 
17:24 -!- aneumann [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/]
17:24 < dassau> yes, I agree
17:24 < gsherman> +1
17:24 < pcav1> fine
17:24 < pcav1> going ahead
17:24 < pcav1> thanks
17:24 <@jef> pcav1: thanks
17:24 < pcav1> do we have other to discuss today?
17:25 -!- anitagraser [[email protected]] has joined #qgis_meeting_150206
17:25 < duiv> I thing to dev's and users we should create some page
17:25 < anitagraser> hi. sorry for the delay.
17:25 < timlinux> I have to leave now too...sorry
17:26 < duiv> on which we provide some insights in stuff like: when 3.0, what about Qt5 and python3 etc
17:26 < timlinux> maybe we can try for bimonthly meetings?
17:26 < pcav1> timlinux: I'm afraid we should
17:26 < timlinux> I think there is too much stuff to sort out in 1 meeting a month
17:26 < pcav1> yes
17:27 < pcav1> please remember for next meeting
17:27 < pcav1> I think we need an annual budget
17:27 < pcav1> I do not think it is wise to go step by step like this
17:27 < timlinux> yes - can we revive that doc I was working on?
17:28 < timlinux> what about meeting same tiome on the 20th of this month?
17:28 < anitagraser> timlinux: yes please, can you send out the link once more
17:28 < timlinux> time
17:28 < timlinux> I will move it to QGIS.org
17:28 < timlinux> google docs
17:28 < timlinux> anitagraser: and hi btw :-)
17:29 < anitagraser> +1 for meeting on 20th
17:30 < duiv> my feeling is not that we need more days, but that we should be more focussed during the meetings...
17:31 < duiv> what we spoke about in two hours now, should be possible in half an hour without all the waiting
17:31 < timlinux> hehe
17:31 < timlinux> compulsory speed typing courses for PSC members :-P
17:31 < anitagraser> i was already wondering if video calls would be more efficient
17:31 < timlinux> yeah
17:32 < timlinux> although maybe we will just talk a lot :-P
17:32 < anitagraser> even if someone has to write down the decisions afterwards
17:32 < duiv> anitagraser: we could try one on the 20th
17:32 < timlinux> we can try to do hangout
17:32 < timlinux> lets try
17:32 < timlinux> maybe on a mumble room?
17:32 < anitagraser> what's that?
17:32 < timlinux> I have one up and running already
17:32 < timlinux> mumble open source voice chat room
17:33 < anitagraser> ok, never heard of, will check
17:33  * duiv trying out: https://tox.im/
17:33 < timlinux> http://www.mumble.com/mumble-download.php
17:33 < timlinux> tuns on all platforms
17:33 <@jef> email?
17:33 < timlinux> runs
17:33 < timlinux> jef: meet by email?
17:34 < timlinux> we could too
17:34 <@jef> timlinux: no, discuss what needs discussing.
17:34 < timlinux> yeah I meant that
17:34 < anitagraser> imho, the response time on the mailing list is horrible
17:34 < anitagraser> (psc mailing list)
17:35 < timlinux> I think live chat is good for making decisions
17:35 < pcav1> anitagraser: right
17:35 < timlinux> perhaps we also need to think about agenda items alreayd having a proposal
17:35 < anitagraser> that helps
17:35 < timlinux> so instead of coming to the meeting saying 'what about xyz'
17:35 <@jef> than waiting two weeks for the next meeting?
17:35 < timlinux> rather come and say 'I think we should do XYZ, do others agree?'
17:37 < anitagraser> yes, wherever possible there should be some clear questions written down in the agenda
17:37 < timlinux> ok I have to run off
17:37 < anitagraser> cu timlinux
17:37 < pcav1> cu
17:38 < timlinux> meeting logs mostly are here: https://gist.github.com/timlinux/c722743f356c0e50e8ca
17:38 < duiv> ok, so we leave it like this, and come up with a better agenda?
17:38 < duiv> anybody volunteering?
17:39 -!- timlinux [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: timlinux]
17:41 < anitagraser> duiv: shouldn't everyone make sure his/her agenda points are clear?
17:41 < anitagraser> i couldn't clarify most of them
17:41 < duiv> Ok, so we do a meeting on the 20th?
17:41 < anitagraser> if nobody vetos, i think we should try video chat on 20th
17:42 <@jef> veto
17:42 <@jef> don't have video equipment.
17:42 < pcav1> my experience was negative
17:42 < dassau> also veto, I won't be available on the 20th
17:42 < pcav1> quite messy, impossible to recover the log
17:42 < pcav1> but if you wish we can try
17:43 < anitagraser> so irc it is. please suggest dates
17:43 < pcav1> oh, right jef 
17:43 < pcav1> I also probably do not have it
17:43 < anitagraser> well, mic would be enough
17:44 < anitagraser> anyway. dassau, when would you be available?
17:44 < anitagraser> 27th?
17:44 < dassau> yes
17:44 < duiv> that is one week before the next one...
17:44 < anitagraser> others?
17:45 <@jef> one week after 2.8
17:45 < anitagraser> meaning we should try next 13th?
17:45 < duiv> jef: would you prefer that? Or would you prefer one just in front of the release?
17:46 <@jef> duiv: well, the 20th is probably not that good for me.  27th is ok.
17:46 < dassau> 13th would be possible too for me
17:47 <@jef> that my bugfix week ;)
17:47 < duiv> ok, let's do 27th then
17:47 < dassau> ;)
17:47 < duiv> I'll create a wiki page and do out a 'call for agenda'.
17:47 < duiv> ok?
17:48 < dassau> fine for me, +1
17:49 <@jef> ok
17:49 < anitagraser> +1
17:50 < duiv> I'm of then, bye